The future of Cabals (2017)

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Re: NEWSFLASH: The future of Cabals

Postby HECTORRedDeckWins26 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:41 am

Not if you dont have another own unit close to it. Or are too far away. Its just like normal Speed racing for tiles. No multirole removal for dragon.
And they double nerfed the blazing dragon tho.
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Re: NEWSFLASH: The future of Cabals

Postby Mip » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:59 am

The loyalty nerf doesn't matter for dragon decks, like you said they already need a unit on the field and they have the hero, so that's already 2 dragon loyalty. In the early game everything moves on it's own independently of the rest so the friendly damage shouldn't really be occuring, it's not like they already have units around which can only bring back on the dragon on specific spots like embalmer or that they have units they would rather not move like ivory trader/high priest and so on.
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Re: NEWSFLASH: The future of Cabals

Postby HECTORRedDeckWins26 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:42 am

Yeah but it has to be a dragon unit and not a constractor or the nether 1/1 for splash reasons, for example. Thats not entirely correct. Most of the time you have units wich follows your Front units for tiles race and reinforcement. Especially in small maps.
And: if youre too late one turn or your opp could go first or the opp unit is bigger than power one or or or. I still think there are so many situations where dragon needs a payable spotremoval for tactic reasons.

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Re: NEWSFLASH: The future of Cabals

Postby Mip » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:15 am

I think if they a payable spot removal for all situations and a very cheap removal in blazing dragon which works also in plenty of situations it might become too much. Now opponents only have to worry about playing around blazing dragon in early game so they might consider pre-buffing cards with doll/lady and so on, then if dragon also has payable removal that will no longer be viable since you give them too much value for their payable removal.
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Re: NEWSFLASH: The future of Cabals

Postby HECTORRedDeckWins26 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:31 am

Thanks for saying that Mip.

You exactly described why dragon is the weakest cabal and is playing much behind. And why it strongly needs that buff.

"You just have to be aware of his maybe 3 out of 30 blazing Dragons in early game(what isnt really difficult), and if you achieved that, games vs dragon players are then only like: playing easy your win to home. No Comeback for the dragon player then."

Lacks of a 5 cost *Mountain Sanctuary* - true.

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Re: NEWSFLASH: The future of Cabals

Postby Sdric » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:41 pm

As somebody who has mainly played Nether here's my 2 cents on the Mountain Sanctuary topic:
I do think Mountain Sanctury is fine as it is - it's just that it doesn't fit the metagame. It's a card that great for dealing with big creatures - but we don't see many of these in the current metagame. Simply because big power comes at high cost - and so far has been far to easy to deal with for Danaan, which has defined the meta up until now. With Control and OTK both being nerfed, we might actually see some big-power-creature Dominion decks where Sanctury is a viable choice.

I) That being said: What Nether does lack, is some decent early removal to deal with stuff like Toughness buffed Bog Candels (or later Banshee). Nether lacks it's own Mechanic style unit which means that easly threats can often run away with the game before Nether can stabilize.


To the Mono-Blue-Topic:
[*] Blue has a lot of nice support cards, but lacks finishing tools. As stated above pure stats isn't a good winning condition - and that's all Raining Dragon offers as a winning condition. You can set him up for max value in 2 or 3 turns and get completely wrecked by a Banshee without ever getting into attack range - with none of you creatures.
[*] With Blazing Dragon nerfed things become awkward, since it was a needed finisher for Torturers (I would have prefered seeing them being nerfed instead). I'll refer to I) here.
[*] Blue lacks overpowerings earlygame cards. Gnome Hero might be the best example here or the (now nerfed) Alawite Adept. With Contractor and Devices being nerfed Blue losts nearly it's whole earlygame.
[*] Deck-Discard isn't a good winning strategy in game with open deck size, especially if opponents can easily play cards from their graveyard. Discarding a card might actually help them to cycle to their deck faster.

Summary:
Blue has nice cards to support Osiris, but lacks a real gameplan. Discard flat out isn't viable and Rain Dragon is the weakest winning-condition of all Cabals. In order to make mono blue viable Dragon would need some better Mechnic/Gnome-Hero-ish creature to contest the board and a lategame winning condition that lives up to its name - and possibly, but least likely, a way to make discard creatures actually playable.



EDIT:
Sidenote, I feel like you, Mip, overrate Blazing Dragon as removal quite a lot. It's useless vs Toughness. It deals only 1 damage and it requires a setup, you had to potentially take an expensive unit back to hand which you wanted to remain in play. That's A LOT of drawbacks. Personally I think Torturer was the offender, their synergy was the problem. With Blazing Dragon being nerfed Dragon's bad earlygame got even worse.
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Re: NEWSFLASH: The future of Cabals

Postby Mip » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:26 pm

I might overrate Blazing dragon, since my decks tend to run many 1 power creatures which tend to get buffed before attacking a creature that moved next to them, while blazing dragon counters that nicely by moving next to them and then using blazing dragon.
I've only recently started using mixed green/blue deck with toughness from dolls and now blazing dragon is a lot more harmless.
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Re: NEWSFLASH: The future of Cabals

Postby TaffyDavenport » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:54 pm

I have always thought of Blazing Dragon as an op card. I still do, and I am very thankfull for the nerf, it is, at least, a nerf to SoO and their ability to drop an elite Dragon on turn 2. One extra loyalty is, at all, going to hurt Dragons, but it does hurt SoO, which is to me, the most absurd cabal there is. I also do not think Dragons are weak. In fact, I believe the weak ones are Dominion, which had one single decent strategy with Impostor, now going away. Enlightened Torturer, Blazing Dragon, Sandstorm is a very absurd thing, and ont even start with Dragon over Dragon deploys. Toughness is a problem, yes, but it is supposed to be, otherwise there would be nothing to stop this nonsense. As someone said, perhaps the big problem is torturer, but I do like the nerf to Blazing Dragon.

Once again, for the sake of cry, I want a nerf to Royal Embalmer, that thing is completely unbalanced and game breaking...
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Re: NEWSFLASH: The future of Cabals

Postby Mip » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:36 pm

If you want to nerf Royal Embalmer an option could be making his ability also remove the card from the game if it would be returned to hand not only when it dies. It keeps some of the more abusive loops with blazing dragon and illusionary dragon impossible.
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Re: NEWSFLASH: The future of Cabals

Postby TaffyDavenport » Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:31 pm

Hum...I would really like a nerf like the one received by Fionog, I mean a really huge nerf to the ground. Either givint it a very high cost for ability, say 4, or either limiting its use to one time, even if the target dosent get removed after being revived. The fact that it can return creatures endlessly by 1 resource is sickening, and its very easy to protect it or buff it, or do both at once. Spot removal is usually very costy, except for Nether, and Dominion only has 2 action card removas and one of them simply return it to the hand, the other being extremely costy, so...you can all see the point, right? I am not possibly overreacting to this card, am I? I just hate it so very much and its cost/effect ratio is so unfair...
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